Discussion Forum by Charlie Fish
August 16th, 2007 2:28 PMReforming Score
I am dropping part 2 of my proposal - this proposal is now all about REFRAMING THE RESET!
SFZero is all about the Drive. The Drive to live outside of the box. Score is secondary. I don't deny that.
But I believe that Score catalyses Drive. Score adds meaning to Drive. Drive dies without Score.
Back in April, our glorious founders Sam, Ian and Sean took the fateful decision to reset the scores, and change the scoring system.
Now, we know our trio of gurus are fond of sous rature gestures, but there is a better way!
Part 1: Reframing the Reset
The logic behind the (allegedly periodic) score reset is sound. It gives new players a chance to shine. A chance to beat the best. It means that high-scorers can't rest on their laurels.
But to have your score reset is upsetting. Indeed, some trailblazing players all but disappeared from the scene after the reset. The score reset is also frustrating for new players who join just before it happens.
I PROPOSE creating a better system for recognising past Score:
1) The scores shall be reset every six months. The scores shall not be reset for any other reason (like five players reaching level 8).
2) The best scorers of past eras shall be recognised with icons in their profile (similar to the Senator icon show below). See points 3 and 4.
3) There shall be an icon for the highest scorer of each Group, for each era.
4) There shall be an icon for the Rising Star of each Group, for each era. This shall be awarded to one player from each Group who joined partway through the last era and made an exceptional contribution (but was prevented from getting the high score by virtue of having had less time than older players).
5) The icons shall be better than the ones I have designed for the sake of this proposal.
************The remainder of this text is for discussion only and does not form part of my proposal!************
Part 2: The Super Vote
There have been various calls for a Super Vote button, for not all votes are cast equally.
It has also been suggested that votes have been cheapened since all players became able to cast unlimited votes.
I PROPOSE a solution that will tackle both of these issues:
1) Each player will be allocated a limited number of Super Votes, on top of the normal voting system.
2) Achieving Level 1 will entitle you to cast one Super Vote, achieving Level 2 will entitle you to cast two more Super Votes, and so on.
3) Super Votes shall be worth 50 points each - flat rate.
4) New players shall (secretly-ish) not be allowed to Super Vote for one week, to make it harder for cheaters to create accounts for the sake of giving Score.
Part 3: More on Score
This section does not form part of my official proposal, but I would like to list a couple more suggestions for discussion:
1) Should players have to complete a task at their level before they are allowed to progress to the next level? For example a Level 4 person would not be able to progress to Level 5 (even if that player's Score was high enough) without completing at least one Level 4 task. This will ensure that the really high-scoring tasks don't get ignored...
2) Should an all-time high scoring board be kept somewhere?
P.S. By way of bribery, if these proposals get implemented (or at least variations of them that reflect any discussions below), I will donate £100 to sf0.org in recognition of the extra programming work I will have imposed upon our benevolent leaders.
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fyi: all time high scoring can be currently be seen by going to the player page & selecting all time on the left. I suggest you then click the votes button to see the truth of the alltime chase for glory.
I want to start by saying that these are strong ideas, and I like a lot of it. I don't want to be seen exclusivly as a detractor. but since we are now beginning to engage in serious discussion of tweaking the game mechanics I will add my 2 cents.
Part of the problem with the super vote (this applies to Meta Tron's suggestion also) is that, as before with limited voting, it seems likely that as soon as I cast my last super vote the next day you Mr. Fish will do something even more amazing (something that completely oblitereates what my puny mind thought was possible) and I will be unable to reward you.
I would like to see instituting of some sort of personal favorite icon (or profile section) to be posted in comment form at the bottom of a task completion, so that if a better one arises it can be withdrawn and re assigned. Perhaps if we had a way to rescind a super vote I would be in favor.
If we got one (or more) 'super votes' to be used with each level, but had the ability to move them around I would like it.
As for lots of re-sets I would fear that with each one we may see the exodus of good players that happened after Impossible Exchange. High scorers worked hard to gain access to good tasks, I dont want to loose my ability to do them all the time. I will eventually get frustrated and stop, because i need to keep doing weak tasks for no other reason than to gain levels again. Also it is hard to make up lots of new tasks for each era, since presumably many tasks would continue to get retired upon the changing of eras.
Good points there, YellowBear.
If you ran out of Super Votes and then someone did a mindblowing task the very next day, that would be extra incentive for you to go up a level (to get more Super Votes). I like your idea of being able to move around Super Votes, but that has the problem that people would occasionally see their score go down.
As for getting discouraged by score resets, I hear what you're saying. I balked at the concept of score resets when I first heard of it, but I slowly came around to seeing the point of them. I don't think you should worry about having to do "weak tasks for no other reason than to gain levels again" - that's where the Drive comes in. Do the tasks as if they were worth 400 points!
So, I stand by my proposals.
I'm with you fish on all but the resets. yellow evil bear has it right. sometimes life beyond sf0 takes over and if you came back in a month later (or so) to find your points wiped out, it would be a bit discouraging. resets have their place, but every six months? perhaps the reason so few people completed the gift thing, is because tasks do take time. some solutions come in an epiphanous wave. others reveal themselves, like dreams, over time. isn't some of the pleasure of this "game" keeping this secret task within you until life speaks the same language as SF0?
I don't claim this is a good idea, but it may be something to consider.
How about a six month rolling reset? Each player's score and level is determined only by the tasks they've completed within the last 6 months. Older completions get dropped from the score calculation, but still exist in the individual praxis.
That provides an incentive for old players to stay active, and it levels the playing field for new players. But, you don't have the discouraging aspect of plummeting to zero all at once or completing a big task (or joining the game) weeks before a reset.
The only thing a it doesn't do is encourage high level players to take on low level tasks. But, if I may be so bold as to make huge sweeping statements about a game I've been following for a couple of weeks, the high scoring players around here don't seem to shy away from low scoring tasks. If it really is a problem, some variation on a satisfaction score could be designed to correct it.
Some of us have made it through at least one reset. I was on that prestigeous first page, even on that exciting top row for a short period of time back in Impossible Exchange.
I'm pro-rollover. It gives new players a reason to play, a hope to see themselves on that front page, even if they started months after other players. I wasn't always pro-rollover. I'm beginning to see how time affects the history of SF0, and it was a forward-thinking move on the developer's parts.
I am quite taken by Loki's idea of rolling resets. It would address travelbug's concerns as well. It would give people an ongoing shot at the top spots on the leaderboard.
Perhaps players should have their scores reset when they reach, say, 5000 points (rather than because six months have passed) - and they can have an icon in their player's profile to show that they have completed a cycle. But that would mean the leaderboard would (eventually) almost always have some 4000+ points players on it.
Hey you left out a highest score for the groupless…
I think we need a better colour anyways.
I love Stars!
Gold Stars!
How do you get to be groupless anyway? I had to choose a group to sign up. I demand a groupless option!! Defend groupless rights!
nobody has to. you can ignore that part when you sign in
I like the idea of individual resetting once a player has reached a certain number of points. Then it becomes an honor, something to work for, a badge you can be proud of, rather than a disappointment.
It would sort of be like having a baby. I'd be so proud to see my pregnant score give birth to a new-baby-next-era rollover score, puny but made of potential and ready to take on the future! I'd want to send balloons and congratulatory cards ("Congratulations on your new rollover!" and "Its a Glasnost!") to the players who made it. And I'd pay special attention to thier first rollover steps...
LOL! Love the metaphor! It's a nice idea to make the reset a goal rather than an necessary evil.
Resets per-player at a high score, with some sort of badge to mark the turnover, sound really appealing. Combined with aggressive, ongoing task-culling, that seems to fulfill every goal of the system-wide resets, with none of the drawbacks.
The only (minor) annoyance might be the players who drop out entirely and leave their characters in the high score list for all time. You could always add a temporal rollover with a very long delay or complicated weighting in order to clean them out, if people feel it necessary to do so. For example, if you fail to complete *any* tasks in six months, then the game begins dropping scores older than one year from your point calculation. That gracefully drops stagnant players from the high score list without pissing them off and driving them away should they happen to be simply really busy and planning to return.
Until more experienced players convince me it's a dumb idea, some scheme like this is likely to get my vote.
I like the idea of the rolling reset. However, I don't think I'm a fan of the supervote... I think it would be an unnecessary complication.
K!,
I actually feel a lot stronger about the reset reform than the supervote. I agree with the way that Meta tron phrased it - the resets should be made into a positive goal rather than a frustrating "necessary evil".
I'm tossing my vote in for the icons/badges...something that should be pretty doable. :)
never got the impression the reset was triggered by any in-game event; never got the impressoin the proposed 9/30 reset hinted at back in April had anything other than a date attached. just can't understand why people see it as a frustrating necessary evil. it's a wonderful time, an opportunity to find new inspirations/aspirations.
also
i'm pretty sure OlverX stopped playing Before rest, not because of it.
I liked the reset and I think I like the idea of resets.
The only thing that was a little panic-inducing was "zomg...there are NO tasks for UofA whatsoever" But people certainly chipped in to create a lot of new tasks.
the absence of tasks and few players was a reason I joined U of A at the start of glasnost. I saw an open field...
then u of a zoomed again.
part of me thinks wouldn't it be great if the era reset and NO tasks were there? for a couple days. or the first few tasks are Only selected from player-submitted ones?
tabula rasa
Or perhaps TPTB could just cull a few new tasks every time they add tasks and save them for the reset... but to me there's not much of a difference between a task another player creates and a task a dev creates. We're all human, and they play too sometimes.
Oooh, I really like Bex's idea of "when you hit a certain score, you get rolled over." But, of course, you get a special icon for it, too! So it's like "Hey, that person's level 1, but look at that nifty 2000 point icon over there."
The rolling thing, so only six months' worth of tasking counts, also sounds pretty awesome to me.
I also like the badges! (not that I'd be getting any)
As a relatively new player it is a bit discouraging to know that soon my score will be reset. While I think the the reset is fun (everbody starts fresh) there is a need to keep the "history" of your activities.
Perhaps the badges could reflect the level achieved in the previous era?
Perhaps with a little number underneath?
*Mink suddenly realises that Mr. Fish got her incredibly drunk on Tuesday in order to wipe her memory of this conversation*