Burn A Flag by Salty Pete
August 27th, 2006 12:39 PMIf you really want to impress people, dont burn a flag... dont burn a car either. Dump gas on yourself and light one up. Otherwise you're really just burning up oxygen that I could be using refilling my lungs after sighing about how boring you are.
Symbolic protest seems to accomplish nothing... Why not just roll up your sleeves and do something about the problem? Oh right, because you're lazy and flags are cheap but working is hard... I got ya!
So, in that spirit, I decide that I'd make a flag that represeneted this task and burn it...
I made the flag... (See photo 1) but then I realized that I didnt have and matches (see photos 2-5 for my reaction to that) and went to the local bar (picture 6) for some matches (picture 7). Finally, after what seemed like hours I assembled my materials (photo 8 ). I set the whole thing up (9 and 10) and it was burn, baby, burn. (Photos 11 - 28)
Afterwards, how did I feel? Well, I there was a little distress because I suddenly realized how potent my protest had been and then I had a flash of fear because I was worried about that my protest _WOULD_ change anyone's opinions, and since I'd already taken a swing at "Fix it with fire" I'd have to go back and redo it or something. Err wait, what I meant to say was I felt pretty stoked because I'd wormed 25 points out of a silly task.... No no no, I really meant to say that I actually did feel a better, flag-burning is a hot-button issue for me (ha ha) but not because I think people should do it or shouldnt do it (though I think they shouldn't) but more because I think it's a ridiculous thing to worry about. I simply do not believe that there are enough yahoos out there to get an ammendment to the consitution across the table. Really though, I think the most fun derived from this task was having a little fire in my back yard at 2:30 AM. Yay, fire!
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I guess I wasn't clear. My protest was against the task itself and against burning flags, not against my stance on burning flags. My feelings on the topic were the spark, but the protest itself was against the task and the issue it represents.
Can't burning a flag index the burning of flags? And on top of that, I was trying to poke fun at public protest in general. I just dont think that it accomplishes very much.
You are probably right... My backyard isn't public, however since I was protesting the task (or at least I thought I was) and that task is only specific to this virtual community, I would say that posting it here in reasonable detail makes it about as much of a public flag-burning as we'll ever have and one that reaches the widest possible segement of the intended audience.
In retrospect, I think that the protest itself was more about the issue than the task itself, but I couldn't possibly be the first peron on earth to be doing somethign for reasons other than those stated or those imagined.
As for Joshepine, how about instead of a drive-by you explain your beef in more detail? What is a flag? Should I have flown it first? Does it have to be cloth or something? Maybe it really does. The two definitions I was able to find say yes. But then is a plastic flag a flag? I would say yes. Is a paper flag a flag? Yes again, at least for me. And since it was my protest and task completion, I think I get to use my own definitions. Don't I?
Um.. and let's face it, I was also making a joke which was at least as good as this one: http://equivalenz.sf0.org/GadgetsHead/taskDetail/?id=59 If perhaps somewhat more subtle.
And whats the difference between burning a flag and burning your car? I mean, in terms of the symbolic value of the action. One is just harder on your pocket book and going to give people more legitimate reasons to be angry with the action itself. I imagine there are no laws that say "no buring cars" but there probably are plenty of laws about pubilc fires and toxic smoke and burning trash and "public nuisence" and all that jazz.
>And on top of that, I was trying to poke fun at public protest in general. I just dont think that it accomplishes very much.
alright, now you're being cynical. FUCK BEING CYNICAL
>You are probably right... My backyard isn't public, however since I was protesting the task (or at least I thought I was) and that task is only specific to this virtual community, I would say that posting it here in reasonable detail makes it about as much of a public flag-burning as we'll ever have and one that reaches the widest possible segement of the intended audience.
Any task that is specific only to 'this virtual community' is a task that should go. At best, it's just fun fluff like defile a profile or whatever, at worst it's this sentiment you've just articulated--that we do it all to ourselves, for ourselves and nothing else--the game as self-referential (and largely self-congratulatory) circulation. And if the game is just an echo-dek for white kid fake real art-therapy affect, then it has failed--then it IS a 'virtual online community' and not a GAME. What are we supposed to be gaming? To game, to be gamed, to game (___): there is the measure of your impact on the game and the game's impact on you, but also of yougame on the world at large--what will it be? Here, all I see is this insidious loopback where I make a task and you critique it in your backyard at 2:30am and nothing comes of it--the whole interaction is carefully sequestered from the city, other people--nothing's risked. It's too easy and sort of pointless.
also, online is not public. that's just how I feel about it.
What I mean is the thing you made is probably 4x8 inches, right? And made of stiff material, cardboard or something? There are general standards for what a flag looks like aside from it having symbolic markings; if it's not big and made of cloth, or nylon or whatever, able to flap in the wind, its status as flag is dubious. When congress debates flag-burn-prohibiting amendments, they use specific language to limit the discussion to actual flags, not notebook covers with stars and stripes, or ralph lauren sweaters, etc. I don't think that because you did the task you get to make your own definitions. If I decide that the milkman is the mailman and distract him instead, I may feel satisfied, but I have not distracted the mailman. My complaint is that you didn't make a flag, and so I think the task was not completed.
I'm sure congress does define flags when it talks about flags and all sorts of other bodies who feel that specificity is imporant define it in some way too. Did this task define it? Nope... In fact, it says "Any flag". So what is a person supposed to do? I improvised.
Additional, I think your example is specious. A paper flag, even a stiff paper flag, can be considered a flag. Whereas, a milkman, is (in general) not a mailman... Unless perhaps someone is sending you messages in very strange envelopes. h
Perhaps if the definition were so important it should ave been included in the task. However, if you look at the tasks on the site, I think you'll see that they are intentionally not specific because people are allowed to make judgements about the way they want to complete tasks.
If you want task completions to fit your rigid definitions, then be sure to include them when you create your own tasks, but if you want people to have fun doing tasks, then maybe don't get snippy when they color a little outside your lines.
"there is the measure of your impact on the game and the game's impact on you, but also of yougame on the world at large--what will it be? Here, all I see is this insidious loopback where I make a task and you critique it in your backyard at 2:30am and nothing comes of it--the whole interaction is carefully sequestered from the city, other people--nothing's risked. It's too easy and sort of pointless."
This from the guy who added with the "Snakes on a plane" task?!?
These are wonderful words, but I think thats all they are.... just words you came up with because you're trying to make a point. Like I said before, flags (or in this case, words) are cheap and work is hard. Lead by example, make an impact, then perhaps I'll give your words more credence.
But in the mean time, I'm going to play the game for me. Thats the fun of this game, you get to choose your own level of commitment and involvement.
I also wanted to say that I have been listening to what you have been saying and even enjoying the conversation.... Seeing how you feel, I see that I circumvented your intentions in the manner of my task completion, and that my protest was ineffective and perhaps cynical. But if thats the limit of my misgivings.
As a player of this game, it's not my job to complete tasks in the way the creator would like them to be completed. If you want to choose how tasks get done, either be specific or do them yourself and get lots of points and have fun... thats what the game is for, isn't it? To have fun? For me, fun is just a paper flag and a pack of matches away.
I am going to do the tasks my way and if the big red "X" of rejection comes down on me for the fact that I was a little tongue-in-cheek with my completion, then so be it.... but I've got more faith in the "X" than that.
And yes, this is both a game and a community... Perhaps not a very active or tight community, but hey, we're still in beta ;)
man, I'm not about to X you. well played, and till tomorrow.
that the sf0 task of flag burning provokes public debate just as the the real issue/election-year-straw-man does.
I'm tempted to endorse English as the official language of sf0.
Can we please just have a return to sf0 values and decency? This country needs strong role models and leadership.
a like the idea of a mini-not$200-burningman... that could be a task in and of itself.
i'm voting on this based on the fact that you took a thoughtful approach in your opposition to the flag burning task rather than just writing some half-assed snarky comment on the task itelf or rushing to remove a task. though i have to agree that it didn't fulfill the letter of the task, the result turned out to be much more interesting than burning an actual american flag(which i assume both of you are talking about), not for ideology, but for 25 points on sf0. that would be pretty weak.
I like your trixie. It's always good to get a sense of the sentiment out there--this is part of what the task ntended, actually: what flags would get burned, and in what spirit? So score there. BUT read closely--"Would burning a flag in public make you feel better?"--where's the public in your backyard? This is a task for the street by daylight, without question. We're supposed to see not just how you feel about it but how others react. This is still an inflammatory issue (as long as we're punning), and that's where the interest lies for me. It's also inevitably going to be a reference to a time when a lot of flags did get burned, and thus another little piece of latent SuperAmericana to tease out and play with. Of course some real crazy radical street theatre is always going to be a better way to protest, but as you so adequately demonstrated, burning flags is easy. Without endorsing that old 'symoblic logic' that I too tend to shit on, I'd say that all protest is going to be symbolic, and whether that's always a bad thing is another question. Your protest should index something as well; all I see yours pointing back to is... your anger about burning flags? re self-immolation, I have another idea. Bring the banlieue to the buhddists, and set your own car on fire (if you have one). I was thinking about doing this at one point, and have to wonder is it even illegal?