Clever Vandalism by scotbotmosh
May 15th, 2008 12:42 PM / Location: 43.1485,-88.12427
Quick, inconspicuous, and no one will get hurt...
9 vote(s)
SNORLAX
5
GYØ Ben
5
Darkaardvark
5
Dok's Sock
5
JK Bobbins
5
JTony Loves Brains
5
Strike Tool
5
Burn Unit
5
Not Here No More
Terms
(none yet)27 comment(s)
As much as taping eyes onto a pencil sharpener, or taping a picture of a rooster to a wall...
he's got a very good point. less criticizing, more tasking
It wasn't a criticism. It was requesting conversation.
In my opinion comments unaccompanied by votes are inherently a little bit critical, actually - since they call attention to the fact that you've seen the task and don't regard it as voteworthy.
Doctor Harmon,
Some of us use different criteria for voting than you do.
Love,
Inky
Sure - but whatever your criteria for voting, posting about a completion makes it clear that you have noticed it, and calls attention to the fact that you don't think it's voteworthy (unless you've voted). So any such comment can be taken as having an implicit "and by the way, your praxis doesn't meet my standards for voteworthiness" attached.
Now, that's not to say you're wrong for having stricter standards for voting than some people. I know it means I find it more flattering to get your vote than some. But it doesn't change the fact that commenting makes it clear you've considered the task.
Something about the attitude expressed in your comment bothers me Doktor, although I'm not exactly sure what it is. It may be the implicit assumption that I'm reading into it that people deserve votes and that reading somebodies praxis and then not voting for it some kind of an affront. That people go into the interaction with the assumption that everybody's going to vote for their praxis.
Then there's a certain level of cowardice expressed here, at least I feel there is. I mean, one way to interpret what you're saying is that if you don't want to vote for a praxis, the best thing to do is to quietly pretend that you never saw it.
I don't really think the game will benefited from a social norm that you can't comment on a praxis without voting for it first. I mean, it's not votes aren't easier to get now already.
I don't regard it as an affront to see someone comment on a task without voting. Nor would that response be an appropriate one. I do see it as an act of criticism, however.
I think where you get me wrong is in thinking that I see criticism as a wholly bad thing. On the contrary, I think gentle criticism of a productive nature - such as Inky's comment upthread - adds a great deal of value to the game. There are people I especially respect for their opinions on books, people I respect for their opinions on movies, and quite frankly Inky is the sort of person I respect as a critic of praxis - precisely because when she offers criticism, it is always provided with class, is never excessively harsh, and always serves to improve the game. That last fact makes it particularly clear that she criticizes for the best reasons possible, rather than to be difficult, and the game is better for it.
What I was responding to was not the criticism itself but the denial that it had occurred. I think at present we have a bit of a norm that criticism is unwelcome, and I think that norm needs to die in the arse. It won't do so until we have more truly-constructive criticism appearing on non-flagworthy tasks, plus a willingness to accept the sort of criticism that is actually geared toward producing better tasking (and the ability to separate it from the kind that's just unpleasant and not at all helpful). Being ashamed of being a critic, particularly when you're a good critic, is counterproductive.
I take issue with InkTea's assertion that she wasn't being critical. I do not take issue with the act of having been critical. After all, her criticism was mild, obviously valid (all but eight of her fellow players also see this task as being unvoteworthy, and at least a few of the eight are major vote-sluts such as myself), presented kindly and inoffensively, and clearly intended to be productive. That's the sort of criticism we ought to be encouraging, and hoping to receive on our own tasks so we know how to do a better job in the future.
InkTea is somebody I respect as a critic of praxis. She should be willing to own up to the fact that she is a critic, because the right sort of criticism - while rare - serves to improve the game as a whole.
YOU GODDAMN SCHIZOPHRENIC!! STOP TALKING AMONGST YOURSELF!!!
1. I read most completions. I'd say 90%; as I'm subscribed to the RSS feed, and don't read only when I'm overwhelmed with work/life/whatnot. I don't mean for my vote to "be more flattering", my vote means you moved me somehow. I comment on MANY things without voting. There is a place between flagging and voting. I also comment without flagging. It's ridiculous to suggest that one must do vote or flag for every task completed, or hold one's tongue if they don't intend to vote first.
2. A question is not a criticism. I wanted a conversation. If I wanted to pass judgement, I'd have said: "This isn't really vandalizing." I make statements often. I'm not afraid of making them.
Criticism:
1. the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.
2. the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.
3. the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.
4. a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.
5. any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dating or reconstructing them, evaluating their authenticity, analyzing their content or style, etc.: historical criticism; literary criticism.
6. investigation of the text, origin, etc., of literary documents, esp. Biblical ones: textual criticism.
Question:
1. a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply.
2. a problem for discussion or under discussion; a matter for investigation.
3. a matter of some uncertainty or difficulty; problem (usually fol. by of): It was simply a question of time.
4. a subject of dispute or controversy.
5. a proposal to be debated or voted on, as in a meeting or a deliberative assembly.
6. the procedure of putting a proposal to vote.
7. Politics. a problem of public policy submitted to the voters for an expression of opinion.
8. Law.
a. a controversy that is submitted to a judicial tribunal or administrative agency for decision.
b. the interrogation by which information is secured.
c. Obsolete. judicial examination or trial.
9. the act of asking or inquiring; interrogation; query.
10. inquiry into or discussion of some problem or doubtful matter.
I posed a question.
I do make criticism. Here's some criticism: Harmon, you assume you know the tone with which I write, and you are quite mistaken.
It's ridiculous to suggest that one must do vote or flag for every task completed, or hold one's tongue if they don't intend to vote first.
I have suggested nothing of the kind. I have merely pointed out that the act of commenting conveys meaning beyond the text of the comment, whether you want it to or not. And so I do not presume to know anything at all about what you are thinking when you post, or what you intend, beyond the things you state explicitly - but I do consider it reasonable to regard voting or failing to vote as an expressive act. And I encourage you to consider whether the message sent by a vote is one you want to send or not.
Inky, your votes send a pretty noticeable message that you were moved by a task. You've done a fine job of making it clear through past comments. But it does mean that your failure to vote implies that you are unmoved - and commenting will tend to make the person whose completion it is notice the absence of a vote, which makes the implied statement ever so slightly stronger.
I'm not trying to tell you I know what you're thinking, or what you're trying to say. I don't, and I know I don't. But I can tell you that when someone comments on my praxis and no vote is involved I will tend to notice the fact, and I'm certain I am not alone in this. I won't be offended - actually, I'm pretty hard to offend - but the message sent by a lack of a vote comes through loud and clear in those instances, and it is folly to say there is no such message. Stating that the message is unintended is utterly reasonable; stating that the message is one we should have no qualms about sending is so reasonable I would have trouble imagining a justification for rejecting it; but a statement that the message is absent entirely is one I find wholly implausible.
And I'm not entirely sure if you're telling me here that you think there is no message. I know you're stating that there is no message intended, and that makes perfect sense to me.
The fact that people have different criteria for voting is both obvious and (in my opinion) a potentially fruitful start to a truly fascinating conversation about what standards do and don't get used by different people. But I think it's actually not directly relevant to my point. It demonstrates that the implied message varies with who sends it, but it doesn't change the fact that there is one.
I feel it is really kind of disrespectful to new players to sit and hash out your personal thoughts of how to play SFØ in these long threads on their completions.
So much time is being spent here comparing variable archaic logics and their intrinsic meanings to the people who hold them in relation to this game. So much so that, in itself it has become a way of playing the game.
What is here is being smothered in long discussions about what isn't.
It's the new way to play SFØ; talking about how to play more than you actually play.
Malthusian comments.
Clever vandalism indeed.
Blueberry is correct. We're being rude. I apologize, Scotbotmosh.
Indeed; I also apologize, and will say no more here that isn't directly about the completion.
There should be a sense of permanence to vandalism...
I disagree. Vandalism can be as much about attacking the idea as attacking the object.
I like the idea, but maybe do it outside somewhere?
or maybe if you documented it loading more or something.
I enjoy that the tool of destruction is not present in any of the pictures.
i.e. Dry erase marker, towel, shotgun, etc.
Vote for clever.
Though I do wish the execution were somehow.... more...
How insatiable we are.
Nice. We're getting into DADA vandalism.
Is it sad that when you capitalize it like that I interpret "Dada" as "Defense Against Dark Arts" instead?
Wow...you guys vandalized my task...very clever...who would have thought a dry erase board would cause such an uprising...I should do this more...come back next week when I discover sidewalk chalk!
Is that really vandalism?