(no subject)

It could be cool. I know I arrived mid-Glasnost, so I don't really know much about the Impossible Exchange other than looking at the player page from then. I think it would be very difficult to do, however, and probably not many people would actually read it depending how long it was.
This could actually be a task, now that I think about it: Document the complete history of sf0.

(no subject) +1

Incidentally, something like this was half-implemented but never made live. We were calling it "storylines", and the idea was that you could group together a sequence of tasks, in a particular order, possibly with additional commentary.

As a devoted n00b...

I would read it. Rabidly. In its entirety.

(no subject) +2

This is a good idea. or Perhaps (in addition?) if we each had our own little sf0 museum attached to our profile page so we could select and rotate what we feature. But until then Inky you are part of keeping the old flame alive, you must continuously link us reminders of the glory of the impossible exchange. Bex, i'm not an expert on the subject, but I don't think you're a noob any more, and you certainly never were a n00b. (the character 'zero' vs. the character 'oh' makes a big difference)

I never was any good at history lessons

But surely the fact that we have to discover all these anomalies, items of historical interest and little known facts for ourselves makes it all the more enchanting? I think a history page would take some of the mystique out of SFZero. I have enjoyed finding out what happened with Rubin, who the hell is Mark Watmuff, how the UKZero Union came about. I only joined a month or two ago, and I have figured it all out for the sheer love of it.

So, Ink Tea, I respectfully disagree.

Not to disagree, but I agree with both of you. +1

Ink good idea! Yes Mr. Fish I agree!, its amazing fun and hours of time exploring, but you are re-living only the Glastnost highlights. Without inky around linking us the old gems it would be so much harder to get the whole picture. At least an organized place of honor, including storylines of major happenings for each era seems apropriate, after they are gone of course. So an Imposible exchange history for now, a Glastnost history once we move on.

(no subject) +1

Dear Charlie,

There are more things between heaven and earth than I would want to reveal. Generally, I despise high school history books for leaving facts out or only getting the gist of the story right or lying to you right out. But I think that sort of neglect and misdirection would be fairly appropriate for SF0 history.

Now, I don't want the entire history to be unreliable or completely ficticious, or on the other hand for it to tell EVERY STORY, to reveal all of your strange anomalies, or to be some sort of asshole's memoire giving away the secrets I've been entrusted with.

But a lot of folks act as if Glasnost was all there ever was. I mean, I joined on in early spring of 2006, and there are lots of questions I have no answers for about what happened before I joined.

love,
inky

(no subject)

A vote from Piratey?!? Wowowow!

my 2cents +2

i think some sort of history page is a simply wonderful idea.

both a past history page of impossible exchange and a living history page of glasnost would be so great!

i, for one, was very involved in IE, but missed out on the beginning of the glasnost, and have had a somewhat less *ahem* fanatical obbsession with checking the goings on. much of this is because even when I log on these days, i feel sort of lost. i dont want to just read individual task proofs, although i *Love* to. I want to know whats Going On. Its REALLY DIFFICULT to figure out what the current threads are, precisely because they trancend single tasks and strings of commentary. also, one of my very favorite things about this game is how something can happen, in real time, on the site, which if you arent there to see, you miss out on the magic. now, if would be lovely to memorialize these various "happenings" with a combination of description links screen shots, whatever. maybe even in the form of a wiki, so the history is communally created, just like the game.

I dont think it would at all detract from the fun of exploring the past oneself, and discovering the mysteries. a history page would just allow you a jumping off point, to allow you to dive down any number of rabbit holes. It would allow new (and old!) players to get up to speed, as it were, and more importantly, allow them to learn, explore, and play with all those old ideas and great events that have happend in sf0, which are more than individual tasks.

it would provide a forum to discuss, debate, and remember the defining moments of each era. see how it evolved, what the game play was like, who were the movers and shakers and candlestick makers, hell, even when major game features were added or changed. (anyone else remember the time before player votes? exactly when voting limits were removed? etc)

I really do believe that this sort of thing must be a collaborative effort, because of course everyone's version of history is different, and we, of all people, should not let others write our history for us.

again, what a good idea ink!

and another thing. +1

perhaps the most important thing to get out of this discussion is:

here we are playing a game... but what we are really doing is making history...

We could always take it upon ourselves… +1

SFØ players seem to love this sight why not write our own history???

(no subject)

thats what i was just going to say!

while having an on-site history page/hall of fame would be a nice feature, there's plenty of fodder to revamp the wikipedia page

However...

Whereas the Wikipedia page is for John Q Publique, who knows nothing about SFØ, a History page on the SFØ site could have information of more relevance to those who already know the game. Because c'mon, really, it takes more than casual interest to get so involved in the game that you actually care about the name of Sean & Ian's cat.

(no subject)

that wiki page is pretty blank. I think you can get your own private wiki that can be edited without interference from the wiki police, we could make our own. I've been in a couple of other comminuties that had such wikis, but i don't know how you set them up.

(no subject) +1

as i read the comments on this i like it more and more, but the next question is who will be doing the work? a sf0 wiki would be nicer than the public sf0 page on wikipedia. I think it may be unreasonable to expect some specific others to do so much work, it would need to be community based wiki style i guess.

(no subject)

Could be, though... Obviously some of us enjoy compiling histories.

(no subject) +1

here's the info and software to start your own wiki site just like the other rabbit did

it seems to require a lot of knowledge that i don't have.

(no subject)

Dear Lowteck,

I want it on the site. That's why I submitted it to this task. I don't want another failed satellite site.

Hilarious!

Mr. Raindrift (aka ian of ianpedia) is quite the prolific photographer. I know that both Rainbow Bright and I have been captured by his lense. (I know that the 'other' rabbit & rubin have been caught as well)

How did those get there?

(no subject) +1

Well, related to both wikis and the current Discussion Forum votes leader, there's already a wiki being used on SFZero. It's true! Click the question mark next to the text style buttons on a text form (like comments, proof). It'll send you here:

http://help.sfzero.org/pmwiki.php/Main/HTMLEditing

No one else is allowed to use it yet. But it's yet another of the well-intentioned, partially-implemented things floating around. The trick to it would just be to have it "know" what user people are logged in as, to have it restricted to people who've been around for a little while.

Anyway, the idea was to have it turn into a help system. But secret rules, amusing limericks, and cultural history might all belong there, too.

(no subject) +1

Dear Sean,

I love these tidbits I'm getting because of this task. I found out who man with a pot was! You've unveiled a secret, albeit door to the hidden passageway inside the SF0 house! You're itching to let us in. I can tell. I'm Inky.

Love,
Inky

PS. What a fucking fantastic way to get so much dialogue, debate, and active participation, Sean! Dangle that carrot- promise us that whatever we vote on, you will deliver on. Suddenly this place feels so much more ours.

(no subject)

I like this idea a lot, Inky.

I'd also like to note (since I'm not gonna complete this task) that many of the other "discussion forum" propositions could possibly be combined into one idea--that there should be as many different ways to measure sf0 prowess as possible, with an easy, centralized system for searching (not just via praxis and player pages, but possibly by a separate page set up just to rearrange players/tasks/points in as many ways as possible, sort of like a stat sheet in baseball or something). That way you can place whatever value you want on different aspects of player performance, and as much information as possible will be released/organized. Super votes, votes, votes vs. task completions, number of flags, whatever.

We're ready for it, Sean!

I trust this community to self-regulate the way wikipedia does. Sure, crap shows up there, but it usually doesn't stay long because people rabidly protect thier sections. We are a devoted enough community that we'd do the same. I think It might solve some of your difficulties as an administrator to spread some of the burden to us. No?
I'm sure if you made it a task, a buncha people (equivalenz especially) would rush to help with the work you don't have time/money for, and others would vote for it. We'd be proud to help and to follow our fearless administrators, especially in implementing the things that are getting discussed in the discussion forum task.

(no subject)

Dear Jackie,

Be careful to note not only what the task says, but what the task does not say.

It does not say that only the task with the most votes will be implemented and everything else will be cast aside. I don't doubt that overwhelming support of multiple good ideas will have their chance at being part of this.

love,
inky

(no subject)

I know a few people have been saying about my completion that my idea was not major enough and should be done anyway. I would love for it to be done anyway, even if it doesn't get the most votes! A lot of these completions have good ideas, and I would hate to see all but one be discarded. I think this task is less of a competition than it is a dialogue among players who care about and want to improve this game. :)

Making SF0 more of a community

I posted a bit about making SF0 open to new players in CAgirlinPA's suggestion (It's a shame that we have so many different pieces of the discussion, rather than in one place...and that's a piece of what I think this is about.), and I think that leads pretty naturally into the idea of community. I think that this is a great opportunity to not only bring the community together, but in doing so, make it more open to new players.

Because your suggestion, Ink Tea, is one I really like, and I especially like the comment about SF0 having a "conscious sense of itself." I feel like there is a community here, but perhaps that it is somewhat split into different groups of people who actually know each other and are nearby, with some connections made after a while of watching and admiring others' completions...that each of us has some sense of the larger story to which we belong, but only partially and dimly.

I love the idea of having a community-edited place to tell our stories, to make sense of the tales, to bring together the tasks into a larger story. I think that would be a great additional use of a wiki. It could give new players a chance to see what other people have done, and also give them a chance to see how those people fit into the larger story. I think it also gives people a chance to start telling their own stories, to share them with other people who are already here. And this, I think, could encourage the telling of stories together.

I think that this living, community-edited history can in some ways play the role that a forum would, in bringing comments together. As long as it has the ability to branch and grow, I think that it could be a great way to have larger discussions (like this one) without having it happen over random tasks, and at the same time, keep a record which is later accessible to all.

All right, I think I've rambled enough for tonight. Thanks for the task, getareaction, and thanks to you, Ink Tea, for your proposal. And thanks, once more, to everyone who makes this site such an amazing place to be. Thank you.

AKA

I was wondering if the history page would have things about individual players. If so, I wanted to know if old aliases could be a little section there, because some of the older comments on old completions are a bit confusing, since many players have changed their names over the years/months, i.e. piratey monkey is now piratey turtle, and various players were all Rubin Starset at one point in time or another, so it might be nice to indicate who was the original that Rubin started it all.

(no subject)

Dear Rao,

Considering it would be our history, I imagine we could write it as we saw fit. Personally, yes, I'd include short bios with publicly known pseudonyms. Do note the "publicly known". Some tricks are best left secret!

Love,
Inky

we, of all people, should not let others write our history for us.

thank you ms. ink~


excuse my tardiness. it's been quite the week.

as the wysgi disappears, i note that the small actions, the very smallest, done in succession, growing slowly and consistently, are what will keep enriching the environment for all of us. today i took 30 seconds to add a 'current count' of tasks to the relevant wikipediae, following someone's easy advice..... despite the paucity of information there, it's very well that any at all is available.

so in that moment of miniscule, yet meaningful contribution, i thought: considering this is an open source game (by certain accounts, the very first), anything less than an open source history would be hard to put up with for very long.

votes may be important, gratifying, and much more than that.... but i say basta with majorities, even those of the slightest tyrannical bent. the only question at this point seems really to be, where will the wiki lie? as is, or something brand new?

on that subject, i say N-O- in capital letters to a collaboration that begins with any level of exclusion like "those that have been around for awhile"... unfortunately in my book, the same would also have to go for stat sheets. (sorry!)

"those that have been around for a while"

Dear Zemaluca,

I'm not sure where you're drawing the idea of exclusion from, though "a while" is a relative term, with a definition that is relative. Is "a while" a few hours? a few weeks? a few months? years?
And I do believe that measures should be taken to restrict the newest players from editing the history. A week? Two or three tasks? A certain number of points? As open as the game is, it'd be best not to entice those who might come to the site not understanding, get mad, and destroy or vandalize what exists. I've seen many incarnations of the overeager and point-hungry getting frustrated and foul-mouthed with big red ex after big red ex, and removing all of their own information...
Of course the history of SF0 must be written by, about, and for the players. I wouldn't load that amount of work on the designers, and even they don't have any idea the number of things that have gone on behind the scenes.

Love,
Inky

(no subject)

ze-dawg,
exactly as much as I completely agree with you that collaborations which do not open doors of inclusion are not collaborations for me, I disagree that stats should be rejected. Those two things are not mutually exclusive in my mind, stats and inclusion.

It's a game, too. If it was just an artsy fartsy social community network, then maybe keeping track of some kind of statistics wouldn't be appropriate. But I likechasing carrots, because it's better than the stick. I like my fun to happen in as many dimensions as my mind can hold. If we didn't keep track of stats automatically, someone would track them, if nowhere else than on some private spreadsheet. Bunk to that, computers is good at math, let's let them do it.

(no subject)

Not just a history but SF0 needs a timeline of events! showcaseing all its glory and wonder

(no subject)

Not just a history but SF0 needs a timeline of events! showcaseing all its glory and wonder

I do like this idea, Ink Tea.

And, I'm very happy to see parts of it coming together already.

The reason I'm not voting for it is that it seems like such an obviously good idea that I can't imagine anyone objecting to it. It seems a shame to use this task to force the admins to do something they'd be likely to do if we just asked nicely. (Or, in this case, something they've already just about finished doing anyway.)

(no subject)

Dear Loki,

I'm not keeping score of who's voting for what. At all. Never have. Thank you for your lovely comment, and I understand your perspective on the situation.

Solution in progress.

Herbie Hatman has worked out a better solution.

(no subject)

Now that the era is over, this proposal will presumably be implemented?

(no subject) +1

(cough) are terms the answer (example)?

(no subject)

Now that you mention it, who is the man with a pot, who joined early, only completed player portrait, but befriended many fantastic souls in his time here? It gnaws at my curiosity