




Neuroscience by teucer
January 26th, 2008 3:25 PMI decided "as much as possible" of a neurotransmitter should be interpreted as meaning "as much as possible without ill health effects" - especially considering that several of the ones suggested in the task description will kill you if you get too much. And I also decided that, since your body becomes desensitized to many stimuli over time, I would spend a week working for a single instance of maximal levels.
I also decided I wanted to do one of the three fun neurotransmitters - dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine, which together are responsible for most pleasure. Dopamine has the problem that anything you can do to achieve this task is at least a little bit addictive, and many of the more potent techniques either break the law or require you to be in a relationship. I take medications that mess with the other two, though - a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor and a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Thankfully, at the present point in my life neither is essential - one is for ADD, and when you're unemployed it's often OK to be a little more disorganzed than usual; the other is an antidepressant, and while I have had depressive episodes in the past I'm not actually presently depressed.
Under normal circumstances, of course, going off an antidepressant is a really unwise idea. In this instance, though, I actually did just fine without it for the duration, as at present its function is basically a preventative one and I'm not under the sort of stress that led to the depression it was prescribed for.
So, I decided to do this task with serotonin. My basic strategy consisted of adjusting my body to a lower than normal level of serotonin-production stimuli, including by going off both of the aforementioned medications for a while, and then both stimulating the production of more and decreasing my metabolism of it.
In addition to these less-relevant factors, today I took Syrian rue seeds, which contain certain chemicals that prevent the body from metabolizing serotonin - increasing the amount of it running through my nervous system.
For the past week (longer than necessary, but as you will see it's best to err on the side of caution) I've been off my SNRI. More recently I also stopped taking my NRI - because while I don't think that one is relevant to the experiment, I don't know for certain how the serotonin and norepinephrine systems interact. I also spent more of my time indoors under relatively low light, to encourage my body to get used to producing its desired amount of serotonin under conditions different from the norm.
There were also some dietary rules I've had to live by for several days, and will for several days more. Harmaline is a harsh mistress, and I knew I was planning to take some as part of this task. Warning to others who think this sounds fun: Monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) like the drugs involved here interact with everything - most other drugs, be they legal, prescription, or over-the-counter, as well as many items in your diet. If you haven't done the research and don't know what to avoid, this is bad.
The clinical details: Harmaline the other, similar alkaloids found in the seeds of the Syrian rue plant, are classified as monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) - chemicals which inhibit your body's production of the enzymes monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) and/or monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) In this case I believe they inhibit both, but the important part for this task is that MAO-A is the enzyme which metabolizes serotonin.
Because serotonin is the neurotransmitter involved in much of the action of most of the psychedelic drugs, and these alkaloids suppress its metabolism by the body, harmaline and related alkaloids in the quantities involved here (about 5 g of Syrian rue seeds, which are 3-5% alkaloid by mass - a light to moderate dose, but it's been close to two years since I've done anything like this so I figured I shouldn't have too much) can sometimes produce an effect not entirely unlike that of Psilocybe mushrooms. It's not entirely like it, either - and as I discuss below, psychological factors (and possibly to some extent the diet and light stuff I did) influenced the results to be less psychedelic but somewhat more fun.
Forgive me if I start rambling a bit here - from this point on, this entire praxis is being written while under the influence - which probably doesn't have a huge effect, but also probably doesn't have none. The stuff above it has been edited in that state too.
(For those of you who are reading this and wondering: yes, this is legal.)
This morning, I woke up bright and early, went for a walk, and prepared myself some Syrian rue tea. This I put into the freezer to chill it, because I really didn't want to be aware of the smell later when the time cames to take the stuff.
I should mention at this point how unimaginably vile Syrian rue tastes. The flavor has been compared to a decomposed chocolate mint - which is about right as far as the smell goes. The aroma alone has been known to cause nasuea. However, this misses out on how incomparably bitter it is. To make matters worse, to properly extract the alkaloids you need to add some acid to the water (I used lime juice), making it sour as well. Once you've downed your tea, it's always best to chase it with a strongly flavored beverage to wash the flavor away. In this case, I had half a bottle of raspberry-flavored hefewiezen.
This takes a half hour or more to kick in, so I made some cornbread which my trip-sitter* and I ate.
*Note: psychedelic drugs shouldn't be taken alone. The person you are taking them with should be sober, experienced, or ideally both. In this case, mine was Levitating Potato, and he was both.
Later, we had homemade lemon gelato (made in a hamster ball, of course), and then after a while we went for a walk in the partial sunlight. By the time we got back (about three and a half hours into the experience) I was feeling decidedly more of a serotonin-style happiness than previously, but not especially weird in any other way. Given how suggestible many mind-altering drugs, and psychedelics in particular, tend to be, this is not surprising at all - I was doing this in connection with Neuroscience, and I was hoping for the serotonin feeling, so that's what I got. In other words, my mind was doing me a favor by playing up that aspect of the trip.
Then I popped open a can of root beer. Oddly, the flavor was exactly the same as always, but I was more able to tease out the different flavors within it (wintergreen, anise, and vanilla being the big three, but this brand has somewhat more cinnamon in it than is typically found) than I normally am. It was neat.
Later I kept LP company for a while while he worked on a task that should be hitting the praxis fairly soon. We also brainstormed a game, but we haven't yet played it on a surface more public than scratch paper, so that is incomplete. By this point my drugs were just starting to wear off. (Our game won't feel drug-induced when you see the rules, by the way; as I have mentioned this wasn't as weird a trip as I've had on Syrian Rue in the past.)
Conclusions: Being full of serotonin feels good. Drugs that tend to do other weird things too are suggestible enough to keep those effects surprisingly small if you're expecting them to fill you with serotonin. When your serotonin levels are raised artificially, a normal or even boring day where not much happens is actually pretty fun. Tasking on drugs may produce some strange results, and should probably happen more often (given tasks that permit it).
At the time of this posting, about seven and a half hours after taking the Syrian rue, I am sober. I'm also still feeling pretty good about my day. However, the week-plus-long process isn't over. I'm still off my medicine for a couple days, and on a special diet for a little less time.
26 vote(s)
- Tøm
- susy derkins
- Ink Tea
- rongo rongo
- GYØ Ben
- Herbie Hatman
- Flitworth
- Meta tron
- Haberley Mead
- JJason Recognition
- Kariudo Chasseur
- Lizard Boy
- Secret Agent
- inquisitive dragonfly
- Jellybean of Thark
- lara black
- Agent Fourteen
- Heatherlynn
- Sir Ducksbane
- rehsamsevoL Lovesmasher
- Evil Sugar
- Sparrows Fall
- Optical Dave
- Tac Haberdash
- Ben Yamiin
- Not Here No More
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(none yet)16 comment(s)
Those reading this might or might not conclude that the Doktor was behaving normally for the day. This was basically the case. The Doktor was more distractable than is perhaps typical, though not overly so. The other notable exception was during one of our test games, where the Doktor managed to play some of the game while confused as to which side he was supposed to be strategizing for.
I like your tasking guts and brains. Wow.
Interesting tasking, glad you didn't have bad effect.
Votes for the nerdy! Wow. My deep seated paranoia of psychiatric drugs has meant that I've researched enough that I understood most of the scientific processes. Ye gods, I love cell. mollec., o-chem. Also, this is my first "favorited" task.
I also love the idea of being scientific and cognizant, when one takes recreational drugs.
Did you have a dip in seretonin afterward? A low to follow the high?
I'm sure the good doctor already knows about erowid, but for the laypersons out there this might help.
Yeah, Erowid's a great resource. They also have a section on their MAOI page that talks about what foods and medications you can and can't combine with MAOIs.
As for being scientific and cognizant about it - you don't necessarily need to understand the neurochemistry of the drugs you're taking, but if you're less cognizant than this of what might happen at an observable level you probably shouldn't be taking them. This is especially true with MAOIs.
Vote for potentially life-threatening, but also well-researched to ensure safety.
Well, "potentially life threatening" is something of an overstatement. There are things you could do with Harmala that will kill you. They require either spectacular quantities of Harmala, or large enough quantities of other substances to be equally noteworthy. At low to moderate doses, taken by itself, the worst you might expect would be a bad trip and feeling somewhat sick. There are reports of people taking 30+ grams of Syrian Rue seeds in tea form -- I can't say any of those sound even remotely pleasant, but they didn't sound life-threatening either. One such report (the author's second time at that dose level) is quoted in TiHKAL: "I started to feel very sick and negotiated my way to the bathroom to face the inevitable -- voiding from both orifices simultaneously."
I don't know of any reports of people dying from recreational MAOI usage -- though I do know of deaths resulting from combinations involving prescription MAOIs, which are taken on an extended basis.
Basically, yeah. I'm more paranoid about the safety precautions than most recreational harmala users, but that's because I know that "I feel nauseous and headachy from hypertension" is not conducive to a good trip. I haven't had a bad time yet, and it's partly because I pay attention to the little things.
Now, I suspect if I'd been on my Effexor even this dose might have been potentially lethal. I don't think it would've been, but I don't really know either way.
The most the MAOIs can do is reduce MAO activity to zero for a couple days; that's an overly conservative estimate, though. So for long-halflife drugs (including Effexor) the worst it can be is the equivalent of taking perhaps 3x your normal dose. Not exactly doctor recommended, but there are very very few drugs where the difference between therapeutic dose and lethal dose is that low.
On the one hand, I'm inclined to agree with your reasoning there. I presume it to be correct.
On the other, the combination of serotonin reuptake inhibitors and other drugs that mess with the serotonin system is specifically contraindicated, and serotonin syndrome doesn't seem like something to take any chances with. So I'm playing it safe.
You Doktor have giant balls. Luckily you seem smart enough to not let your balls kill you.
Thank you.
By the way, for those who hadn't seen yet, the game mentioned at the end which the first draft of was developed while I was under the influence can be found in our Public Surface praxis.
You got the gummies' vote just with the warning at the top. The only thing that would have made it better is if you'd attempted to increase your gummytonin...but that would be fatal for a human.
Holy toledo! That's kinda intense.